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Rob Nelson's avatar

This nicely deepened my understanding of this exchange. I came away from reading the original exchange wondering why anyone would think, given the amount of cash provided, that there would be major effects. Poverty is poverty, and it creates all sorts of hardships, but being poor in the US is quite different from being poor in sub-Saharan Africa or rural South Asia.

The scientized language of "human capital" and the many ways to measure it are part of the problem. A little attention to context would help.

It is not really that hard to explain why safety net programs that support everyone, even those you think don't deserve it, are better than complicated, bureaucratic processes to assist only those who would most benefit. Making the argument for a universal child tax credit does not offer much of a role for experts and their spreadsheets, and it does not offer much to politicians working in a polarized environment. I wish experts would spend more effort trying to change public values via persuasion and less time scoring points on one another.

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Chris Schuck's avatar

This is just a stray thought, not really parsing the details of your (excellent) analysis and that whole interchange between Bruenig and Piper. But when you echo Sarewitz's observation that "figuring out the value tradeoffs through politics is just as difficult as agreeing on the science": I wonder if one additional challenge is that value disagreements and tradeoffs - indeed values themselves - have a completely different metaphysical structure than empirical disagreements over scientific evidence and predicting/calculating related tradeoffs. That is, even when we manage to shift the conversation from science to values, there could be a tendency to reify values and tradeoffs as if they are the same kind of objects as scientific claims or discrete pieces of evidence. Of course "science" is value-laden, which is the whole reason for shifting the conversation. But maybe once we're dealing with the first-order values themselves, this requires a different way of engaging and communicating about them. The way "values" are embedded in our life histories and social practices, the kind of normativity they reflect, their level of abstraction and extent to which they can be specified and correlated with objects and actions, might point to a different mode of engagement then scientific questions informed by values and more narrowly focused on epistemic considerations.

Perhaps this fundamental difference is so self-evident that pointing it out doesn't actually do additional work. But I can't help feeling like it might bear on the discussion above somehow.

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